Registering our Marriage at Italian Consulate
To register our marriage at the Italian Consulate, I was required to bring a certified copy of our marriage certificate. A few weeks after our wedding, I went to Boston City Hall and for a small fee, was able to get the document. Normally, vital statistics documents are located at a separate location. However, since our wedding was so recent, the certificate was still at City Hall where we had originally applied for it.
Once I had the marriage certificate, I went to the Consolato Generale d'Italia a Boston one morning before work. Luckily, the Consulate is located across the street from the building that I work in which makes it very easy. When I arrived at the Consulate, I met with the same gentleman that worked on my Italian citizenship application a few years ago. He pulled up my records on his computer and then entered in the details of the marriage certificate, in Italian. Once entered, he printed a copy for me to review and correct any mistakes.
After he entered in my new information he said that they would send my marriage certificate to the Comune di Manoppello where the rest of my documents are recorded. I was told that I would not be notified that the changed had been made in Manoppello and that if I wanted to confirm I would have to make a request in a couple of months.
Overall, the process was very simple. Now that our marriage is registered, my wife is eligible for all the same benefits that I am as an Italian citizen, except she is unable to vote. If she chooses, she can apply for Italian citizenship after three years of marriage if we are living outside of Italy, or after six months of living in Italy.
posted by Michael Severini @ 7:53 PM
24 Comments
24 Comments:
my fiance is italian so i will be going through this whole process very soon. i found your blog through google and am now going through it. so far it's taken a lot of my worries away
August 3, 2007
I apologize in advance for the spiel and sharing of negative experience, but I feel there is another side to the Italian Consulate in Philly.
Michael, I have stumbled on your blog as I googled for the Italian Consulate's address in Boston.
I am impressed and somewhat surprized to find Americans that aspired to become Italian Citizens. Moreover, thought uncanny I too have had to deal with the Philly and Boston Consulates. Both experiences couldn't be farther apart.
For a better understanding of what I am talking about, let me give you some background.
I am an Italian citizen, born and raised in Napoli. I married an American and we have a daughter, also American. She was born in PA, but grew up in the NorthEast.
A year ago, after been contacted by the AIRE office in Boston (Registry for Italian Citizens abroad) I learned that my daughter could request Italian Citizenship status because of me. Sounded like a great idea. If only I had known the saga I was about to embark on.
Step Numero Uno.
I had to request her birth certificate where she was born: Philadelphia. That meant contacting the Italian Consulate there. Not as easy as it sounds, because DESPITE making over 20 calls during their working hours over a 2-months period (May-June 2006) and never getting to speak to anyone; leaving 2 voicemails for the Citizenship's office; another for the Consul secretary and even e-mailing them with my info, Philly NEVER responded.
Made me wonder if they were a fly-by-nite outfit. After all, what decent business or organization can afford to exist without communicating with its public? At first, I thought, I called at the wrong time, but having checked their days/hours of business, I had to cross that out. Another bewildering observation was that their phone recording specifically instructed "Not to leave messages, but to call during business hours." That was catch-22, at its best. :(
Therefore, with no other recourse I directed my complaint and perplexity to the Boston Consulate. Mrs. Cristina who works in the Pensioni's office and therefore had no obligation to help, understood my predicament and putting aside, "it's not my job," went to bat for me. Need more people with that mindset. We both hoped that Philly would at least communicate, with another Consulate. Albeit, it took 2 e-mails and faxes over a 7-months period before Philly deigned us with the following answer: They had no paperwork on me or my daughter!?!? So much for that bit of info.
By this time, is Jan/Feb 2007 and I am questioning whether this whole thing of registering my daughter is worth the effort. (I am resigned to the fact that things in Italy do take "a loooong time " but this ain't Italy.) Nevertheless, I am advised by the Boston Consulate that dual citizenship may come in handy, if ever my daughter decided to move to Italy. So I press on.
You see, I have her original birth certificate, but it is not good, not for Italy, because it doesn't have an "apostille."
If only Americans were as bureacratic as Italians we wouldn't be having this chasm between the way things are done in one country versus the other. ;)
After additional conversations with Boston and two different individuals, during April, I am told by Mr.C. that works at the Citizenship office and whom I found to be lackadaisical, that there is a way to bypass Philly Consulate (though temporarily, I later learned): contact the Secretary of State of PA!! What a breakthrough!!
It only took 11 months and myriads phone calls to his office to find out!? :(
Furthermore, the same gentleman tells me he will handle the registration with Italy, if Philly won't.
That is no small reassurance. in my mind. (Philly Consulate has shown to be unprofessional, incompetent and unresponsive.) Now the ball will be rolling. Was I wrong!
On a positive note, the American offices were spot on. They deserve an ovation for professionality and speed.
After googling and a few phone calls I locate the right office. The gentleman there, Travis, is super helpful, besides he knows everything about "apostille" and what I need. So he directs me to the Harrisburg Vital Records office, where I request another birth certificate, specifically for Italy, then forward it to him to authenticate with apostille.
That whole process takes about 7-10 days! I am on cloud nine. Numero Uno has FINALLY been accomplished!
After assembling the rest of the documentation, I re-contact Mr. C. at the Citizenship office in Boston to make sure nothing is left out. Only then, he springs on me he will send everything...guess where...Yep, to Philly because that's the place of birth!! :( Will this insanity ever stop?
I don't like it one bit. My next move is to call Mrs. Cristina (Pensioni office) in Boston to share my zero confidence in Philly's handling of ANY matter.
She empathizes, having shared my frustration on/off over the past 8 months, and reassures me Boston will take responsibility if Philly loses the paperwork. That's a consolation. At least, I won't have to repeat the expenses. However, time, inordinate amount of wasted time is getting on my nerves. I am beginning to feel it took less time to build the Roman Empire. By now, I have determined to follow this closely. No more letting months and months go by, waiting.
Before the end of May 2007, I mail everything to the Citizenship office in Boston, then call over there few days later. Boston received the paperwork and is about to send it to Philly. Mr. C., suggests I call back after July 4th (with holiday and potential vacations) to check on the status of my daughter's application.
Numero Due is on its way.
Will Philly rise up to the occasion or continue to disappoint?
Keep on reading...
On July 6th I get on the phone. Mr. C. (in Boston), states he has no news, perhaps his counterpart in Philly, is on vacation... so let's check back again at the end of July. The saying "no news is good news" doesn't apply here. "Silence is golden," neither.
Is anyone alive at the Philly Italian Consulate? Have they all been kidnapped? That would be a relief of sort, at this point, and an acceptable explanation.
So, I prepare myself for several more weeks of......waiting.
Finally, it's July 30th and time to call again... just to hear "NO word from Philly." Shock and bewilderement have given way to well-grounded indignation.
No vacation, sickness, holiday...or else can account for this absolute negligence. Perhaps, if one lives nearby and strolls over their offices in person, something gets accomplished. Except, some of us can't afford driving 6 hours to Philly to for a vis-a-vis presentation. I am not whining because the process requires time...but for Pete's sake how many organizations employ one person per office and when that person is off (whatever the reason) there is no other to pick up the slack and ensure the flow doesn't just die. Or, as in my case, show there is some intelligent life at the Philly's Consulate and this is not only a futile battle with the Twilight Zone.
These are some of the thoughts that have gone through my mind. Thought, I would rather express to the "higher-up" at Philly's if I had the certainty someone in that hell-hole treated every inquiry, every request with the minimum courtesy: a reply!
Unfortunately, experience, advises me against any further dealings with the Philly's Italian Consulate.
If someone there had done his job there would be no reason for malcontent. Those in charge over there ought to take a few lessons from the Boston Consulate, not to mention the Harrisburg offices - run by Americans. The Consulate job is to serve the public, more specifically the citizens it represents!!
Going back to July 30th. I wait an hour to settle down before I proceed to call the nice lady at the AIRE in Boston. She is the one that mentioned a year earlier it would be good to request the Italian citizenship for my daughter. I vent for few minutes. She thinks this deserves the attention of a higher-up and puts me through to Mr. Morroni, who is just below the Consul.
After listening to the highlights of my complaint, Mr. Morroni tells me this whole matter should have been completed (by Philly) in 7-10 days and that he'd look into it.
An hour later he calls me back to inform he looked at my file and will personally fax Philly a request for speedy resolution of the matter. Says I should know something in 2 weeks, tops.
He too was professional, efficient and polite.
This consulate has easily earned high marks in my eyes.
Otoh, Philly's consulate, is a shame to Italy and a detrimental representation. Whatever its problems, hopefully, someone will take notice and fix them.
I'll keep you posted as to the ending of this story.
August 29, 2007
UPDATE
Wednesday, August 22, after 3 weeks (was supposed to be 2, tops) and no tidings from the Italian Consulate in Boston I decide to call Mr. Morroni (the top man there) to inquire as to the citizenship application’s progress.
When I get the operator I am told that Mr. Morroni is out for the day. The operator doesn’t know when he’ll be in, as he is preparing to go on vacation. I tell her I am aware he is going on vacation in September (there are 9 days left in August) and would like to speak with him before that occurs. She takes my name, phone # and the reason for my call.
Lo and behold, the next morning I get a call BUT it’s from Mr. C, (at the citizenship office). First thing he asks me: Have you left any messages recently? I dislike people that beat around the bush, so I reply, “Not for you.” Stealthy inquiries deserve stealthy answers.
Next, he informs me that (FINALLY) Philly’s consulate got their act together (my paraphrase), and returned the birth certificate with its translation.
At that disclosure, I express my consternation that such a simple task took 3 months to be completed!?!?
As expected, no response. Talking with Mr. C. is like pulling teeth.
While I have him on the phone I inquire about the next phase. He discloses the transcription at the Comune di Napoli will take a few months. THAT I was prepared for, from the get-go.
I also ask him if the Comune di Napoli Vital Records will contact the consulate or me when it's all finalized. He doesn’t know. We wouldn’t want someone to get the idea they have this whole process refined, leaving a false impression! Sigh!
I wish him a good end of summer and we finish the conversation.
I have no more confidence in anyone handling this matter, but I hope (against hope) Napoli will contact me directly, because I don’t want to have to deal with Mr. C. or Philly, ever again.
After the call, I can’t help wondering:
1. Exactly when did Boston receive the certificate back from Philly?
2. Why didn’t Mr. C contact me and only phoned when I called someone else at the consulate?
3. Last but not least, WHY, for goodness’ sake, didn’t Boston handle the translation of that certificate?
All questions that will remain unanswered because I have had about enough of inept and inefficient personnel unwilling to provide a straight answer or, God forbid, do their job. Besides for every question I did get an answer more questions were raised.
Until last week, I was under the impression that Philly’s role was to process the paperwork and send it to Napoli, NOT merely translate a birth certificate!!!
Boston’s role was to ensure that process didn’t die. Mr. C. could have easily translated the certificate (as I read he did for you, Michael) and avoid all the hassle I have documented, but for reasons I’ll never know, he chose the hard way when he deferred the job to Philly, knowing full well that would halt the already mucked-up process!?
The last fifteen months have been an exercise in frustration and I can’t wait to put a period to this craziness.
Hi...
I have all the documents, but I'm going to Boston next year (instead of Italy) for working purposes.
Do you think It's possible for a non-american person to get the Italian citizenship by the Boston consulate (or Philly)?
This comment has been removed by the author.
19 October 2007
Latest – BUT not final - Update.
On Oct. 17, 2007 I finally put a call thru to the Ufficio Stato Civile (Vital Records Office) in Napoli, Italia. I had been wanting to do it for some time, but I am usually in bed at that hour. The office is open between 9:00 am - 12:00 pm (3:00 am – 6:00 am Eastern time). Who wouldn’t want to work that schedule?
At a time when I typically dream away, I am up instead dialing 1010297, overseas code, country code, city code… and praying someone will pick up on the other hand. Please, no coffee break! My prayer is answered. After informing the gentleman on the other end that I am calling from Stati Uniti (U.S.A.) so to avoid been hung up on and having to repeat it all over again, I briefly explain I need information on documents sent over from the Boston Consulate 2 months ago. He kindly transfers me to the ‘right’ office – without dropping the call! The second gentleman has been briefed by the first responder and asks me for the name I am inquiring about. The search for paperwork from Boston comes up empty!
No records in their PC that anything been received. Gentleman #2 offers an intermediate solution. “If I fax over a copy of the birth certificate it will be transcribed while waiting for the original one to arrive.”
Unfortunately, I don’t have a copy of the translated birth certificate.
His next suggestion is for me to get another one!?
I want to cry. Instead I calmly fill him in on the impossibility of that request. It’s taken 1.5 years to get Philly attention, I am NOT going through that again. Sensing he couldn’t help me anymore, he lets someone else weigh in on the options.
Gentleman #3, the man responsible for the “final” transcription, Mr. Di Martino, is nice too and empathizes. From his vantage point, if my daughter info is not in the PC THEN it’s not in Napoli! Plain and simple! Both him and the previous gentleman ask for the exact mailing date of the paperwork I am inquiring about. He posits without waver that any delay of the process originates with the Italian Consulate in the U.S.A. He wants to help therefore he gives me his direct fax # so the Boston Consulate can fax over a copy of the birth certificate. Ends with some pleasantries and check back in 10 days.
At 3:35 am (9:35 Italy time) I go to bed with a sense of unfinished business and unable to fall asleep.
It’s 11:14am when I call Mr. C. at the Citizenship office at the Boston Consulate to inform him I spoke with the Ufficio Stato Civile and was told the documentation was not there. Ask if he made a copy of the birth certificate.
Emotionless he replies he sent the birth certificate on Aug. 6 and the AIRE form (to be registered as voter) on Aug.14. When I ask for specifics to which office in Napoli he sent the documents he tells me to Municipio di Napoli (City Hall). That’s it!?!? No specific place? But, he tries to assure me the papers are there. Probably have not been “protocollati” (registered) yet. States he needs to look in the folder for the copy and for me to call him back after 2 pm. The Consulate (keeping with Italian working hours) closes from 12pm – 2pm.
2:34pm Call Lm
2:52pm Mr. C. returns call. Says he’ll fax copy of certificate, the following day, if I provide the number, then he asks me to pass a message on to the Ufficio Stato Civile di Napoli, next time I call: send Boston an “estratto di nascita” (short copy of a birth certificate).
Making overseas calls to offices at 3:00 am was my very first time! Undoubtedly, a habit I do not intend to form. Besides, doesn’t it make more sense that he’d make the request… considering he is faxing over the paperwork?!
For curiosity’s sake, I ask why the documents were mailed under separate covers and on different dates. He replies (slight sarcasm in his voice) they were going to two different offices. And I should have known that… because?!
Red tape, procrastination, laissez-faire attitude, not letting your left hand know what the right hand is doing...need I say more?
It ain’t over yet.
"Do you think It's possible for a non-american person to get the Italian citizenship by the Boston consulate (or Philly)?
Felipe, I am not sure how long ago you posted your query, as the blog doesn't display dates. Further, if you read my comments, you can get a feel of what I think of Philly and now the Boston Consulate.
In lieu of Michael's opinion here are a few suggestions.
1. If you are in Philly now, then by all means go there in person and find out what is needed.
2. f you are not in Philly's, wait until you get to Boston. Again, go personally to the Consulate, Ufficio Visto e Cittadinanza. It seems to be the speedier way to get things done. The phone number is 617-722-9201 Xt 13.
Has your birth certificate been translated in Italian?
If not, according to the Boston Consulate, it has to be translated by the Italian Consulate in the place you were born. Is it Philly?
Hope it helps.
November 12, 2007
4:20 am
Bright and early almost a month later I start the day by calling Mr. Di Martino at the Ufficio Stato Civile/Transcription in Napoli to inquire how things are proceeding. Imagine my shock (by now I should be accustomed to this...I am not) when he tells me he has not received the fax from Boston or the original paperwork. I am speechless (for about 5 seconds) then complain. Mr. Di Martino checks a second time and a third time. Alas, no charm! Niente.
What now?!
Call Boston Consulate to request a re-fax!! That’s easy for him to say.
When he hears the original documentation was sent to “Comune di Napoli” it’s his turn to be astonished. “That’s too vague. Should have been addressed specifically to this office,” he remarks. He is telling me who had already come to that conclusion, on my own. I am just an ordinary person who can’t wait to get to the end of this trip!
We exchange thoughts and it's clear that Mr. Di Martino cannot do a thing until the paperwork reaches him. Besides suggesting the certificate be re-faxed, he offers to call me as soon as he gets the paperwork. I venture to ask if his office could initiate the request to Boston. He states: No. Apparently, the request of a private citizen is not acceptable. Can’t argue with Italian ‘laws’ even when they make little sense. I leave my phone # for him to contact me as soon as he receives the paperwork. He is confident the paperwork will get there (someday). Wish I were too!
It’s 4:37am when we hang up. I don’t care whose fault it is, who dropped the ball or who is asleep at the wheel. I am ticked off, not wanting to put another call to the Boston Consulate.
9:03 am
Call Boston to inform Mr. C. – nicely - the Ufficio Stato Civile has not received his fax. Annoyingly, he retorts: “I sent it.” Gathering all the patience still left in me, I reply “I don’t doubt it.” Still, the fact remains Napoli doesn’t have it (not blaming anyone). Would he please refax it? And while he's at it, could he send me a copy of my daughter’s birth certificate and its translation (I reason, in my mind, in the event another faxing fails I want the send the documents myself).
He states that he can send me a copy of the certificate, but not the translation (one more senseless thing). However, “he’ll ask.” Whatever that means.
Further, I suggest mailing the certificate directly to Ufficio Stato Civile. Just to cover all our bases. I solicit a phone call. He acquiesces.
His last words to me are: Call Napoli by the end of the week to confirm the 2nd fax has been rec’d.” Common sense would be for him to solicit confirmation from Napoli, via fax.
Throughout the day, I cannot help think over how much of my time and energy this whole process has taken, so in the evening I fax Mr. C. a request for copy of my daughter birth certificate with translation (to make it official) and include the address to the Ufficio Stato Civile.
November 15, 2007
12:52pm Not having heard a peep from Mr. C. I decide to call Mrs. Cristina. She is the very nice lady I spoke to several times over the past 17 months.
I apologize for bothering her again, briefly update her on the latest and ask about the certificate with translation and whether Mr. C. re-faxed the 2nd time.
She confirms it is Consulate procedure not to share the translation as it’s considered “internal paper” but will gladly check what Mr. C. accomplished since my conversation, 3 days earlier. When she returns on the phone she corroborates he did re-fax and he also sent me copy of the certificate (not sure if translation is included). I thank her and we get off the phone.
November 16, 2007
THE FINALE
10:45 am As I once more consider the events of the last 17 months and the ongoing limbo I resolve that if by next week Napoli gives me the same answer, I am going to write a letter to Mr. Morroni (the Vice-Consul)and cc. to Mr. C., even the President because I am tired of going, aimlessly, around in circles.
In all this, the person that stands out, the individual who went beyond the call of duty is Mrs. Cristina who works in the Ufficio Pensioni. Her outstanding performance is remarkable, even more so, when one considers that all she did for me doesn’t fall within her duties.
While contemplating my next move, the phone rings. To my surprise it’s none other than Mrs. Cristina. She was asked by Mr. C. (because I phoned her yesterday) to deliver the long-awaited news: Yesterday Napoli faxed Boston. My daughter, at last, is registered as an Italian citizen!!! Hurrah!!!
I am elated and thank Mrs. Cristina for allowing me to vent to her, for returning my phone calls (despite not being her job) for her supportive, kind manners and for never making me feel I was bothering her. She needs a monument, better yet a promotion and a bonus! People like her are not the norm. Her present employer should know that she is a keeper!
In toto, I also thank Michael Severini for permitting me to voice my thoughts on his blog and thanks to all who have endured reading this saga.
Arrivederci!!!
Elisa, I am sorry, but I always forget to look at these comments and was suprised to see your story. What an experience! I have heard many negative stories about the Philly Consulate and I feel fortunate that my experience was relatively good. When I was dealing with Philly, I worked with a woman who was American, but fluent in Italian. She was extermely helpful compared to some of the others, but I heard that she no longer works there. Anyway, congratulations on your daughter now being an Italian citizen. All your hard work paid off. Best of luck to you. - Michael Severini
Michael,
how's your Italian?
I hadn't checked your blog in a few months. During all the time I wrote I wondered if everyone had left the building. :D
At any rate, it was very cathartic to be able to have a place to vent. Grazie mille!
Now I can laugh about it.
Best wishes to you!
Yep, I am still here. I also forget to check my own blog. I enjoyed reading about your experience, although I am sure it was extremely frustrating. I am going to start writing more posts, so check back from time to time.
I will be starting the process of applying for Italian citizenship. I am married to an Italian for 10 years now. From the other posts, it looks like I will have to get my birth certificate ' apostilled' is that correct? I know the State of California offices where our marriage was apostilled, so I should be in good shape.
Yes, you will have to get your birth certificate Apostilled. However, since you have been married to an Italian citizen for 10 years, I am not sure how that changes the application process for citizenship. It may be completely different from someone who is applying through bloodline. I would check with your consulate.
I am an egyptian girl married to an italian man! and i went to apply for my italian citizenship april 2008 and they told me that i will get it after 1 year! supposdely april 2009 .. you have mentioned that ppl living in italy would get it after 6 months but ppl living abroad will obtain it after 3 years! but they told me i will get my italian citizenship after 1 year! but i want to know how long would it take to obtain the italian passport? thank you very much!
It is my understanding that if you are married to an Italian citizen, you can apply for citizenship after 6 months of living in Italy. I could be wrong, so the best place to get an answer on this is to ask your question at the citizenship forums at Ex Pats In Italy. I am sure someone there will have the answer. Best of luck. http://expattalk.com/groupee/forums/a/frm/f/2620055123
Hi Michael
i'm italian and my girlfriend is american...
we living in italy at the moment and we would like to get married soon...i already asked to the italian consolate and they replied she can get an italian citizenship after 6 months living in italy.
My question is, can i ask for an american citizenship while we living here in italy a?? or it's mandatory that we have to live in Usa...? cause if we marry in the states after 3 years she can automatically ask for an italian citizenship but i'm not sure it is going to work on the contrary!!
tks
Hello, I am not sure of the answer to your question. My understanding is that you would need to be living in the US to apply for citizenship. However, the best thing to do is to speak with an immigration attorney in the USA. I'm sorry I can't be of more help.
Hi, need help!
I'm due to marry my fiance in NYC office. She lives in Zurich and I want to join her and that I know we can get together under the family reunification treaties. However, my question relates registering the marriage. Is that done in her Italian Consulate in Zurich or do I have to do something here in NY? She is registered as AIRE. Would you be able to advice what documents she needs to register our marriage so that I'm entitled to benetis of an Italian citizen (except voting)? I don't see much on the internet except for this blog...THANK YOU SO MUCH for any help or advise, I really really appreciate it.
Congratulations on getting married. I do not know the answer to this question. I suspect that you would only need to register your marriage at the consulate in the region that you will reside in. I suggest posting your question over at Expatsinitaly.com http://expattalk.com/groupee/forums/a/frm/f/2620055123. I am sure someone there will know. Best of luck to you.
I want to registered my marriage at Italian Consulate in Houston but they asking me not only the certified copy of my marriage license but a copy of the application, and they don't want the original. I have no clue how I can get it.
Hello, I have I question that bugs me to the point that I start an research on -line....
My mother got married in 2004 to an Italian citizen. A tragic even happen 3 months after the legal marriage and he died. My mother was a Italian resident for about 5 years before she met her husband so she did not care much about legalizing herself or going after citizenship. Nowadays, when is so difficult to constantly reapply for residency ( is like every other year) she decide to go for citizenship because she has pension in Italy and that is where she will retire.
Her petition got denied. They motivated that with " have to be married 6 month to be eligible for Italian citizenship'" which is right but...is not like she got divorced or separated. Do you know any loops around this law? Please let me know, any help is appreciated.
gradmyla@gmail.com
I am not sure where you can get a copy of the application for marriage. My suggestion would be to go to your City Hall where you originally applied for marriage and ask them. I have never heard of this requirement before.
Rada, I am sorry I do not know anything about this. I would suggest posting your question to the citizenship forums over at Expatsinitaly.com. Good luck.
http://expattalk.com/groupee/forums/a/frm/f/2620055123
Ohmyword! i am going through the same process now but i live in Dubai and 2 of my children were born in South Africa. You can imagine the complexity that that is causing!! I can confirm the the Philly office is not unique! Your blog has been very helpful as it has highlighted the correct office to correspond with in Naples. Many thanks
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